Comments on: Had it with the Bosch water heater! http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/ Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:05:09 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: julio http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-2/#comment-1141 julio Thu, 24 Jun 2010 04:32:32 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-1141 Zee, While I agree that tankless heaters are more complex and definitely are more exacting in their requirements, there is no question in my mind that these Bosch heaters have a problem. In our case, we did multiple upgrades of the gas line, to no avail. As soon as the unit was replaced, it worked better, proving the first was defective. Even today, ours will (not too often) cycle itself in the middle of a shower (which is definitely over the min. flow threshold), causing a blast of cold water. I have not hear nearly as many complaints with the other brands. Zee,

While I agree that tankless heaters are more complex and definitely are more exacting in their requirements, there is no question in my mind that these Bosch heaters have a problem. In our case, we did multiple upgrades of the gas line, to no avail. As soon as the unit was replaced, it worked better, proving the first was defective. Even today, ours will (not too often) cycle itself in the middle of a shower (which is definitely over the min. flow threshold), causing a blast of cold water.

I have not hear nearly as many complaints with the other brands.

]]> By: Zee http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-2/#comment-1140 Zee Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:56:27 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-1140 I think the main problem is lack of knowledge. What I mean by that is; you have to be familiar how tankless water heater works. It is different from tank type. First and major thing is to dimension the system properly... not enough gas, not enough power and hot water is not hot. Other thing is minimum water flow rate. Every tankless water heaters has the minimum activation rate and it can be as low as 0.4 gph... so you have to open the hot water tap little bit more than what you did with the tank heater. Tankless units are also more sophisticate and therefore, way too sensitive than tank type. I think the main problem is lack of knowledge. What I mean by that is; you have to be familiar how tankless water heater works. It is different from tank type. First and major thing is to dimension the system properly… not enough gas, not enough power and hot water is not hot. Other thing is minimum water flow rate.

Every tankless water heaters has the minimum activation rate and it can be as low as 0.4 gph… so you have to open the hot water tap little bit more than what you did with the tank heater.

Tankless units are also more sophisticate and therefore, way too sensitive than tank type.

]]> By: Nona http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-1128 Nona Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:07:39 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-1128 I HATE my Bosch!!!! My husband just HAD to have the stupid thing and I gave it the fish eye from the moment I saw it at the store. I don't know if we have a lemon or what, but it is coming out of the basement because I am done with it. Hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, cold. Had something in it replaced or adjusted, now it is at it all over again. Junk. Period. I HATE my Bosch!!!! My husband just HAD to have the stupid thing and I gave it the fish eye from the moment I saw it at the store. I don’t know if we have a lemon or what, but it is coming out of the basement because I am done with it. Hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, cold. Had something in it replaced or adjusted, now it is at it all over again. Junk. Period.

]]> By: Don http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-972 Don Mon, 18 Jan 2010 00:39:44 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-972 I am buying a new tankless waterheater and came across your site. Great information. I'm looking at a Paloma 7.4 GPM unit for a natural gas installation. Has anyone had any experience with these units? I am buying a new tankless waterheater and came across your site. Great information. I’m looking at a Paloma 7.4 GPM unit for a natural gas installation. Has anyone had any experience with these units?

]]> By: Chimney Liner http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-874 Chimney Liner Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:52:02 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-874 Really liked this post. I will have to bookmark this site to tell my friends. Really liked this post. I will have to bookmark this site to tell my friends.

]]> By: chimney flue liner http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-871 chimney flue liner Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:42:23 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-871 Great post. I will have to bookmark your site for later reading. Great post. I will have to bookmark your site for later reading.

]]> By: Dude 46 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-778 Dude 46 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:18:18 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-778 Please post a pic of your air intake conversion, I am desparate. I live in Portland OR and have a bosh 635ES. I have had all of the problems listed above and more. I installed the first in 2006. Before Bosh would even care that I existed I spent untold hours proving to them that I installed it to their specs and even better. One and a half years later I installed my second water heater as Bosh finally after 100's of calls and hours of troubleshooting and replacing parts sent me a new one. On the first one I changed temperature sensors 4 times, and the computer once. The new one has had problems too. One that I didn’t see above, but might relate to Chicago, is the condensation in my 3' long exhaust pipe was more volume than the condensation drain could handle and the paint on the exhaust collar blistered, cackle off and clogged the drain. In fact if you run it with the vent off you'll be shocked at how much steam comes out of it.(energy efficient?) It turns out that Bosh has a new requirement that a second condensation drain be put in the exhaust pipe. (This was printed in a Service Bulletin long after I bought my 1st unit) They nicely sent me one. My original design didn’t include this, so of course it was a real pain installing it. I guess the problem is solved, my symptom before was the overflowing water from between the exhaust vent and the exhaust collar. I don’t have water overflowing now but the paint on the outside is blistering. I wonder what’s happening on the inside. Bosh told me that the only thing that water dripping back into the unit my damage is to the gas valve, but that is “not likely”. For now I am fighting the whistling piece of shit. Apparently my neighbors have been putting up with it for years, though maybe only in the warmer months. Now that I am actively investigating it, it seem that it doesn’t whistle until its been running for about 7min. I wonder if it relates to water dripping back into it? Oh yeah one of the Bosh’s reasons my heater stopped working in August was that the water had to heat to at least 70 degrees higher than it came in at, however if the incoming water was warm the heater would shut itself off because it reached “dangerous hot temp”. My first unit would just burn you and melt the pipes so cold showers in August are safe. Aww…… August is coming again I wonder if that problem ever got worked out or if August ended last year and I could no longer troubleshoot it. In the mean time Rinnia has been recommended to me by plumbers, heating companies, and the local do it yourselfer heating specialty store. Please post a pic of your air intake conversion, I am desparate. I live in Portland OR and have a bosh 635ES. I have had all of the problems listed above and more. I installed the first in 2006. Before Bosh would even care that I existed I spent untold hours proving to them that I installed it to their specs and even better. One and a half years later I installed my second water heater as Bosh finally after 100’s of calls and hours of troubleshooting and replacing parts sent me a new one. On the first one I changed temperature sensors 4 times, and the computer once. The new one has had problems too. One that I didn’t see above, but might relate to Chicago, is the condensation in my 3′ long exhaust pipe was more volume than the condensation drain could handle and the paint on the exhaust collar blistered, cackle off and clogged the drain. In fact if you run it with the vent off you’ll be shocked at how much steam comes out of it.(energy efficient?) It turns out that Bosh has a new requirement that a second condensation drain be put in the exhaust pipe. (This was printed in a Service Bulletin long after I bought my 1st unit) They nicely sent me one. My original design didn’t include this, so of course it was a real pain installing it. I guess the problem is solved, my symptom before was the overflowing water from between the exhaust vent and the exhaust collar. I don’t have water overflowing now but the paint on the outside is blistering. I wonder what’s happening on the inside. Bosh told me that the only thing that water dripping back into the unit my damage is to the gas valve, but that is “not likely”. For now I am fighting the whistling piece of shit. Apparently my neighbors have been putting up with it for years, though maybe only in the warmer months. Now that I am actively investigating it, it seem that it doesn’t whistle until its been running for about 7min. I wonder if it relates to water dripping back into it?
Oh yeah one of the Bosh’s reasons my heater stopped working in August was that the water had to heat to at least 70 degrees higher than it came in at, however if the incoming water was warm the heater would shut itself off because it reached “dangerous hot temp”. My first unit would just burn you and melt the pipes so cold showers in August are safe. Aww…… August is coming again I wonder if that problem ever got worked out or if August ended last year and I could no longer troubleshoot it. In the mean time Rinnia has been recommended to me by plumbers, heating companies, and the local do it yourselfer heating specialty store.

]]> By: julio http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-720 julio Sun, 03 May 2009 06:00:43 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-720 Looks like you're on to something, John. Good luck with your research! Looks like you’re on to something, John. Good luck with your research!

]]> By: John http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-719 John Sun, 03 May 2009 02:39:04 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-719 I too have a Whistler's Mother. More than two years with the problem on the 280sx ng. Calls to Bosch have not resolved the problem. I wanted to prove my installion was ok so I did a test with the flue open and the air intake open and the unit still whistled its tune. I put everything back together. ( That was only for a test) Looking at my 16 pound sledge I was tempted to adjust the unit forever. Seeing that Bosch has a problem with these units and really no fixes, I tried some experiments on the air intake. Disconneting the air intake and placing a modified air intake fashioned from a plastic aerosol can top I drilled holes changing the pattern from the Bosch units air intake. After a few tries, No noise!!!!! Runs great at high and low flow. Its an air flow problem with this unit. Bosch has to admit that they are causing air turbulence with the various speeds of the fan. It would seem that the air flow of the system is a contributing cause of all this noise, a poor design. These units should be recalled, or fixed! So far this expeirmental fix is working. I'm going to try and change the hole pattern and make the can top smaller to fit inside the cover so I don't have any air flow problems. I too have a Whistler’s Mother.
More than two years with the problem on the 280sx ng. Calls to Bosch have not resolved the problem.
I wanted to prove my installion was ok so I did a test with the flue open and the air intake open and the unit still whistled its tune. I put everything back together. ( That was only for a test)
Looking at my 16 pound sledge I was tempted to adjust the unit forever.
Seeing that Bosch has a problem with these units and really no fixes, I tried some experiments on the air intake.
Disconneting the air intake and placing a modified air intake fashioned from a plastic aerosol can top I drilled holes changing the pattern from the Bosch units air intake. After a few tries,
No noise!!!!! Runs great at high and low flow. Its an air flow problem with this unit. Bosch has to admit that they are causing air turbulence with the various speeds of the fan. It would seem that the air flow of the system is a contributing cause of all this noise, a poor design. These units should be recalled, or fixed!
So far this expeirmental fix is working. I’m going to try and change the hole pattern and make the can top smaller to fit inside the cover so I don’t have any air flow problems.

]]> By: jack oswald http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/comment-page-1/#comment-717 jack oswald Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:21:54 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/01/23/had-it-with-the-bosch-water-heater/#comment-717 Just put in an Aquastar....this is my fourth...also put in a couple other brands....this was installed in a suburb of chicago...gas simply refused to appear...suspect low gas pressure....have to go back out there...will try to increase gas piping size-wize....but it is a purple drag........Bosch should sell a regulator with the unit....some way of regulating gas pressure...bring it up or down.....then there is the venting. Double wall piping fails...stainless will not but cost is frankly out of this world. Standard flue liners are OK....but one can never really be sure....my brother had a client replace a third of the brik in thier chimney after one year of "tankless" waterheating without a flue vent! The condensation is like a Chinese laundry. Hard to say if it is worth the bother....obvious the "kinks" arte not being worked out...any time soon. Obvious a PVC hightemp flue pipe system is needed but Bosch does not want the liabillity...those cracked up in the 80's...lotsa lawsuits! That is what this is all abourt..everyone wants to make zillions...nobody gives a rat's ass about the planet.....me? I just want to be able to advise my clients. Also...tired of wondering..."is it gonna work"? Jack in Chicago Just put in an Aquastar….this is my fourth…also put in a couple other brands….this was installed in a suburb of chicago…gas simply refused to appear…suspect low gas pressure….have to go back out there…will try to increase gas piping size-wize….but it is a purple drag……..Bosch should sell a regulator with the unit….some way of regulating gas pressure…bring it up or down…..then there is the venting. Double wall piping fails…stainless will not but cost is frankly out of this world. Standard flue liners are OK….but one can never really be sure….my brother had a client replace a third of the brik in thier chimney after one year of “tankless” waterheating without a flue vent! The condensation is like a Chinese laundry. Hard to say if it is worth the bother….obvious the “kinks” arte not being worked out…any time soon. Obvious a PVC hightemp flue pipe system is needed but Bosch does not want the liabillity…those cracked up in the 80’s…lotsa lawsuits! That is what this is all abourt..everyone wants to make zillions…nobody gives a rat’s ass about the planet…..me? I just want to be able to advise my clients. Also…tired of wondering…”is it gonna work”? Jack in Chicago

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