Comments on: The BIG tankless water heater post http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/ Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:30:44 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: julio http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-903 julio Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:51:45 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-903 Amber, I think what happens is that even though the minimum flow rate is met (0.75 gal/min), our heater seems more "comfortable" when working hard (raising the temperature of the water a lot.) Its performance is much more sporadic at lower flows or temp increases. Our issue seems to happen at the peak of summer, when the incoming water will be at its warmest, meaning the delta between in/out temps is at its lowest. At all other times of year, it seems to do OK. As Stephanie mentioned, our first unit would cycle constantly during showers. The hot/cold/hot/cold temps are really just a symptom that your heater is turning off during the shower. The cold slug is a result of the time it takes the heater to kick back on. Even if it only takes a few seconds, that's a lot of cold water flowing through. Not very fun when you're in the middle of a shower! Amber,

I think what happens is that even though the minimum flow rate is met (0.75 gal/min), our heater seems more “comfortable” when working hard (raising the temperature of the water a lot.) Its performance is much more sporadic at lower flows or temp increases. Our issue seems to happen at the peak of summer, when the incoming water will be at its warmest, meaning the delta between in/out temps is at its lowest. At all other times of year, it seems to do OK. As Stephanie mentioned, our first unit would cycle constantly during showers.

The hot/cold/hot/cold temps are really just a symptom that your heater is turning off during the shower. The cold slug is a result of the time it takes the heater to kick back on. Even if it only takes a few seconds, that’s a lot of cold water flowing through. Not very fun when you’re in the middle of a shower!

]]> By: stephanie http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-901 stephanie Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:41:31 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-901 We have that problem occasionally too (much less so now that the unit is working and not whistling!) I can't tell you WHY - maybe Julio could - but I've noticed that this mostly seems to happen when it is really hot outside or really cold outside and my hypothesis is that when we're experiencing temperature extremes outside it messes with the water heater's thermostat. When ours is working the way it's supposed to, it starts out cold unti the water that's been sitting in the pipes has been flushed out and the new hot water makes it to the faucet. It's really consistent after that, unless, like I said, it's a really hot or really cold day and then fluctates between freezing and scalding (and makes me crazy!!!) We have that problem occasionally too (much less so now that the unit is working and not whistling!) I can’t tell you WHY – maybe Julio could – but I’ve noticed that this mostly seems to happen when it is really hot outside or really cold outside and my hypothesis is that when we’re experiencing temperature extremes outside it messes with the water heater’s thermostat. When ours is working the way it’s supposed to, it starts out cold unti the water that’s been sitting in the pipes has been flushed out and the new hot water makes it to the faucet. It’s really consistent after that, unless, like I said, it’s a really hot or really cold day and then fluctates between freezing and scalding (and makes me crazy!!!)

]]> By: amber L. http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-895 amber L. Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:55:24 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-895 When taking a shower, the water temperature will be hot initially, than cold, then really hot, then warm, then back to regular temp. What's up? When taking a shower, the water temperature will be hot initially, than cold, then really hot, then warm, then back to regular temp. What’s up?

]]> By: hector hernandez http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-700 hector hernandez Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:20:30 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-700 what i dont like is that every year i have to spend $200 for maintennance by a plumber to clean out the filters what i dont like is that every year i have to spend $200 for maintennance by a plumber to clean out the filters

]]> By: Michael Thomas http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-430 Michael Thomas Sun, 03 Aug 2008 20:33:50 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-430 I have 5 Takagi units installed at my home and rental units. All have been running flawlessly for the last three years BUT... we encountered many installation problems that had to be resolved to get things working properly. I've put up a web page to discuss what we learned, as well as some additional tankless installation tips I've picked up at my Home Inspection business here in Chicago at: http://paragoninspects.com/tankless-heater-home-inspection-evanston-chicago-il-faq.html I have 5 Takagi units installed at my home and rental units. All have been running flawlessly for the last three years BUT… we encountered many installation problems that had to be resolved to get things working properly.

I’ve put up a web page to discuss what we learned, as well as some additional tankless installation tips I’ve picked up at my Home Inspection business here in Chicago at:

http://paragoninspects.com/tankless-heater-home-inspection-evanston-chicago-il-faq.html

]]> By: Jim K. http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-427 Jim K. Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:05:56 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-427 The problems with tankless water heaters are endless not to mention that they take longer to provide hot water. Think of the inconvenience of having to wait longer every time you need hot water! A great alternative is a Hot Water Lobster Instant Hot Water Valve! It's a recirculation system that conserves water while also providing instant hot water throughout your entire home! It's easy for anyone to install, works off of the homes existing plumbing, and only costs $179.95! The Hot Water Lobster uses no electricity and is pump free, so it creates no noise. It is made in the U.S.A., has a 10-year warranty, and can be easily installed in under 10 minutes. Check it out at: http://www.hotwaterlobster.com The problems with tankless water heaters are endless not to mention that they take longer to provide hot water. Think of the inconvenience of having to wait longer every time you need hot water! A great alternative is a Hot Water Lobster Instant Hot Water Valve! It’s a recirculation system that conserves water while also providing instant hot water throughout your entire home! It’s easy for anyone to install, works off of the homes existing plumbing, and only costs $179.95!

The Hot Water Lobster uses no electricity and is pump free, so it creates no noise. It is made in the U.S.A., has a 10-year warranty, and can be easily installed in under 10 minutes.

Check it out at:
http://www.hotwaterlobster.com

]]> By: julio http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-403 julio Sat, 14 Jun 2008 19:36:16 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-403 Greg, I can't really answer your question, because I don't know much about geothermally-heated water heaters. If the geothermal heat was enough to meet your needs, then I'd connect the input to the cold line. Assuming that it's not able to keep up with high-flow uses such as showers, I'd connect it to the hot line after the tankless. There is no reason you can't use a 50 gallon tank in this way, but it's a different approach with a different result. Ours are set up to both buffer the "cold slug" and to give instant hot water. I wouldn't classify a 50 gallon tank as a buffer. The big tank would be the primary heater, but you would get the advantage of having pre-heated water flowing into it from the tankless. It will ultimately be less efficient, because you're keeping a much higher volume on constant standby. But again, I know nothing about geothermal heaters, so that may not be an accurate statement. One things for sure...you will never run out of hot water or be surprised by cold slug! Greg,

I can’t really answer your question, because I don’t know much about geothermally-heated water heaters. If the geothermal heat was enough to meet your needs, then I’d connect the input to the cold line. Assuming that it’s not able to keep up with high-flow uses such as showers, I’d connect it to the hot line after the tankless. There is no reason you can’t use a 50 gallon tank in this way, but it’s a different approach with a different result. Ours are set up to both buffer the “cold slug” and to give instant hot water. I wouldn’t classify a 50 gallon tank as a buffer. The big tank would be the primary heater, but you would get the advantage of having pre-heated water flowing into it from the tankless. It will ultimately be less efficient, because you’re keeping a much higher volume on constant standby. But again, I know nothing about geothermal heaters, so that may not be an accurate statement. One things for sure…you will never run out of hot water or be surprised by cold slug!

]]> By: Greg http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-402 Greg Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:46:38 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-402 Addition to above request for information. Since finding your blog I have been reading all of the info on it and also the links. I think I have answered my question and the tank should be connected in line with the hot water line only, correct me if I am wrong. Also I realise that my adding the extra tank on my own is in line with the thinking of all of you for more consistency of hot water, but is the fact that I used such a large tank instead of the 5 to 10 gal size you all have used going to give me problems? Should I replace it with a smaller tank? I dont want to unless absolutely nessary. Please advise. Thanks, Greg Addition to above request for information. Since finding your blog I have been reading all of the info on it and also the links. I think I have answered my question and the tank should be connected in line with the hot water line only, correct me if I am wrong. Also I realise that my adding the extra tank on my own is in line with the thinking of all of you for more consistency of hot water, but is the fact that I used such a large tank instead of the 5 to 10 gal size you all have used going to give me problems? Should I replace it with a smaller tank? I dont want to unless absolutely nessary. Please advise. Thanks, Greg

]]> By: Greg http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-401 Greg Fri, 13 Jun 2008 17:19:35 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-401 You are just who I am looking for. We recently installed a tank less heater and also further down the line we have a 50 gal traditional heater that is heated by geothermal and if needed the electric heater in the tank. My question is in the installation should the 50 gal tank have the cold intake fed by the hot line from the tankless and then hot outlet connected back to the hot line, or should the cold intake be fed by the cold line with the hot outlet going to the hot line of the house? Thanks, Greg You are just who I am looking for. We recently installed a tank less heater and also further down the line we have a 50 gal traditional heater that is heated by geothermal and if needed the electric heater in the tank. My question is in the installation should the 50 gal tank have the cold intake fed by the hot line from the tankless and then hot outlet connected back to the hot line, or should the cold intake be fed by the cold line with the hot outlet going to the hot line of the house? Thanks, Greg

]]> By: Tim http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/comment-page-1/#comment-399 Tim Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:15:46 +0000 http://bungalowinsanity.com/2007/11/29/the-big-tankless-water-heater-post/#comment-399 I experienced similar unpleasantness with regards to the 'cold water slug' and thought to myself that there has to be a way to make some kind of buffer to reduce the effect of this. What I came up with is quite simple and works beautifully. I added a small 2 gallon tank at the exit of the tankless system. The big difference here is that it isn't plugged in. The hot water from the tankless fills the tiny tank and will remain hot all day and night as it appears to be well insulated. The beauty of this set-up is that the 'cold water slug' gets mixed into the hot water residing in the tank and is un-noticable. Because there is always hot water available, it reaches the taps quickly just like my old tank. Since I am not running electricity to this tank I have not added to the operating costs of the system. Washing dishes by hand is a piece of cake now. The tank did cost $200--a small price in my opinion to smooth out the irregular temperatures of a tankless system. Some people might think that 2 gallons isn't enough, but that is all you need to eliminate that short blast of frigid water. The tankless system will quickly heat it back up within seconds. Another benefit I have noticed is that I can run my tankless heater at the lowest flame setting of 29,000 BTU (instead of 119,000 BTU) which will save even more money. With regards to the noise, I selected the Bosch model 425 which does not have a power vent--it simply goes up the chimney silently. All I hear is a little tick tick tick and a quiet whoosh as it fires up. All in all I am thrilled with the set up as I now have unlimited efficient heating of the water while still enjoying the benefits of having quick delivery to the taps. Costs were as follows: Bosch 425 tankless heater $925 Type B Pipe to connect to chimney $90 Installation $400 Mini-tank $200 Total $1615 Considering that replacing my old 40 gallon tank with a new one would be $600 plus $200 for installation, I think I am much farther ahead. Tim I experienced similar unpleasantness with regards to the ‘cold water slug’ and thought to myself that there has to be a way to make some kind of buffer to reduce the effect of this. What I came up with is quite simple and works beautifully.

I added a small 2 gallon tank at the exit of the tankless system. The big difference here is that it isn’t plugged in. The hot water from the tankless fills the tiny tank and will remain hot all day and night as it appears to be well insulated. The beauty of this set-up is that the ‘cold water slug’ gets mixed into the hot water residing in the tank and is un-noticable. Because there is always hot water available, it reaches the taps quickly just like my old tank. Since I am not running electricity to this tank I have not added to the operating costs of the system. Washing dishes by hand is a piece of cake now.

The tank did cost $200–a small price in my opinion to smooth out the irregular temperatures of a tankless system.

Some people might think that 2 gallons isn’t enough, but that is all you need to eliminate that short blast of frigid water. The tankless system will quickly heat it back up within seconds.

Another benefit I have noticed is that I can run my tankless heater at the lowest flame setting of 29,000 BTU (instead of 119,000 BTU) which will save even more money.

With regards to the noise, I selected the Bosch model 425 which does not have a power vent–it simply goes up the chimney silently. All I hear is a little tick tick tick and a quiet whoosh as it fires up.

All in all I am thrilled with the set up as I now have unlimited efficient heating of the water while still enjoying the benefits of having quick delivery to the taps.

Costs were as follows:

Bosch 425 tankless heater
$925
Type B Pipe to connect to chimney
$90
Installation
$400
Mini-tank
$200
Total $1615

Considering that replacing my old 40 gallon tank with a new one would be $600 plus $200 for installation, I think I am much farther ahead.

Tim

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